2002 SLP Firehawk #196

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Last of the Breed
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:11 am

2002 SLP Firehawk #196

Post by Last of the Breed » Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:26 pm

All,
I am on the fence on whehter or not to sell my Hawk. It has 74,XXX miles garage kept, always used Mobil 5w30 every 3k. I have all the factory documentation down to the factory airbag warning label, original paperwork where it was ordered. The pics on the firehawk owners website will show the chrome covers under the hood, I have all the origianls and the factory air filter. It will come with the car cover and bag. It has been not been driven much since I bought it. I am not in distress to sell NADA classic car calls value at 23,400 high retail. Would consider taking $19,500 obo. I am sure most of you will say too high or you find one cheaper. There's not many of these that have all the documentation that I do with all the factory items owners manual key fobs, pen pad, etc..

2002
#196
6 speed
Red Exterior
Ebony Interior
T-top
74,xxx miles
In an Arizona garage
Last edited by Last of the Breed on Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2002 Firehawk #196

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randybirdhawk
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Re: 2002 SLP Firehawk #196

Post by randybirdhawk » Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:52 pm

I think that's a great price, good option package. It's really a great looking car. I like the anniversary spoiler and you did a nice job on the engine compartment. Good luck with the sale.
2001 Formula Firehawk #190
SLP 160°F Thermostat, SLP Fan Control Switch, SLP Skip Shift, SLP Tower Brace, SLP Air Box Lid, SLP Smooth Bellows, SLP High Capacity Radiator, and #241 Ported and Polished Heads
http://www.fquick.com/randybird

Last of the Breed
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Re: 2002 SLP Firehawk #196

Post by Last of the Breed » Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:12 pm

Thanks. I really hate to see it go. My daughter loves to sit in back and yell faster daddy lol. But its not feasible for a family.
2002 Firehawk #196

Firebrian
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Re: 2002 SLP Firehawk #196

Post by Firebrian » Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:47 pm

Based on those photos taken at 67K miles seems like a very nice, slightly customized show car with a nice option package.

The NADA classic car price for a 2002 Firehawk in "high retail" condition is assuming a car in mint condition, typically <15K miles. That kind of car could fetch $23K. I saw a pair of fully-SLP optioned 2002 black 1LE 6 speed Firehawks with <10K miles bid up to $23K to $24K this year and not sell (owners were looking for closer to $25K). I also saw a one owner, 2001 NBM Firehawk convertible with 7K miles sell for $21K this past March. I corresponded with the owner on that car. It takes a lot of car these days to bring over $20K. A 74K mile can be nice for its mileage compared to other similar mileage cars. But, it will never be in "excellent" (KBB) or "high retail" (NADA) condition. Those are really reserved for very low mileage cars that were garaged and minimally driven. I would think that a 74K mile car is somewhere under the "average retail" number just because of the higher miles.

Mileage matters and is probably the #1 determinant in price followed by condition. Most of the real low mileage Hawks have most or all of the factory and dealership documentation. That's almost expected when you're shelling out >$20K for a 10K mile car. While it's important to know the oil was changed as required, most buyers will also want to know how many times the other fluids were changed in the car's life (trans/clutch, differential, coolant, brakes, power steering).

http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/ ... SLP/Values

http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/ ... e-_/Values....WS6's aren't priced much different.
Last edited by Firebrian on Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Last of the Breed
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Re: 2002 SLP Firehawk #196

Post by Last of the Breed » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:41 pm

Ok. So to your point about miles it doesn't ask for miles to determine value. I am aware it is done via mileage. All the fluids have been changed accordingly by me. Coolant, power steering, clutch master cylinder, trans, rear diff, I vacuumed and recharged the A/C and installed a new accumulator, and I even vacuumed out the brake fluid when it was changed. I maintain all my own vehicles and have been a professional tech for 14 years.

I know the nada site that's where I got the value. These cars are definitely going to be worth something someday, however I realize that day hasn't come yet. Cars are meant to be driven not garage queens unless that's your choice. As stated my asking price might shock some and be higher than that determined by NADA. I don't have black book value due to no membership. KBB doesn't even list these cars as most of you know.

So to the point of value it worth what someone is willing to pay. That is why my post says 21k obo. Even though she has a few miles on her I bet she's in better shape than some of the ones that have sat stored in a garage for 10 years with 5k on them. One other thing is having all the documentation is key for some of which I have everything. You see it all the time today guys trying to restore an old muscle car from their childhood looking for a factory hose/knob/handle or anything and paying extremes for it. Considering there are only so many to chose from and as the years go on they become harder and harder to find more get sold out of country. So its supply and demand.

I agree to some all they will see is the miles and price and deem her to be "average". However what you are not seeing is that you get every piece of factory documentation with the car down to the airbag warning label.

Considering on this forum several are looking for a floor mats and paying 150-200 for a set or paying 300-400 plus for a car cover. I feel my asking price is fair to start for a piece of Pontiac history.

Thank you for your comments.
Last edited by Last of the Breed on Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2002 Firehawk #196

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96AZHAWK
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Re: 2002 SLP Firehawk #196

Post by 96AZHAWK » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:39 pm

When your ad admits that most everyone might think the price is high... Well... The constructive criticism is going to flow. Good luck with the sale, seems like a really nice car. I can't say that I have ever seen it in person. Where in Arizona are you located?

David

Last of the Breed
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Re: 2002 SLP Firehawk #196

Post by Last of the Breed » Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:06 pm

I don't take it out too much David. I am in Casa Grande.

And I am fine with the comments above. I guess I should have detailed my post a little better in its maintenance records. And yet again that is why the ad says obo. I completely understand what determines a cars value. Case in point what you may pay more for I may not and vice versa. That's the benefit of free market. I do appreciate all the responses on here and its nice to get the feedback.
2002 Firehawk #196

Firebrian
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Re: 2002 SLP Firehawk #196

Post by Firebrian » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:16 pm

While KBB doesn't list the Firehawk option, it does list the WS6. And those do require the mileage to be entered. Market values for 95% of the Firehawks out there are typically 5-15% more than a WS6. As the miles get higher the premium shrinks way down. Unless one has an exceptional low mileage Hawk, it's typically worth $1K to $2K more than decent WS6's in the 15K to 75K mile range. I have to figure that no mileage is required on NADA for Firehawks because the condition as listed in highly correlated to the mileage. To be an "excellent" or "high retail" generally requires a mileage of <30K. There might be some rare exceptions out there with 40K or even 50K miles.

A lot of those cars with 5K-10K miles are driven often enough (and serviced) each year to keep them in top shape. 75K is considerable wear on a drive train as well as plenty of exposure to the elements. But it's just as true that never driving a car is little help either. In the past 2 weeks on ebay was a 2002 black SS Camaro M6 CME 345 hp with 2,800 one owner miles. The car had only averaged 65 miles per year over the past 13 years! It still bid to $17,500 which was fair value imo (still failed to meet reserve). But, I'd be leery of a car that that sat so often, where the oil was changed only ONCE in its life, and was started in the garage each month and probably didn't reach hot operating temps (linked below). You would assume all the rest of the fluids in that car are also 12-13 years gold. A little more common sense would have helped there. Even for an ultra-low mileage car this lack of service was pretty extreme. Most owners of garage queens change the oil at least every 1-2 years no matter what the mileage interval is.

KBB top price for an "excellent" 2002 WS6 (in top 3% of all 2002's available) with 75K miles is $13,691 dealer retail. Adding another 15% for a Firehawk package gives $15,745. In checking NADA we find this same WS6 going for $12,100 in the top listed condition ("clean retail"). But in checking the NADA classic car section the same WS6 now lists for $13,000 in "low retail," $17,400 in "ave retail," and $22,100 in "high retail." Clearly, there's something wrong with this price guide with the same car in 2 different sections varying by about $5,000. In any case the $22,100 "high retail" for the WS6 compares fairly well with the classic car price of the Firehawk at $23,400. Even NADA doesn't see a huge difference between FH and WS6 (+6% premium in this case). Check and see what it takes to fetch $22K in a WS6 coupe and that will be what's needed to get $23,600 in a Firehawk couple. Everyone is free to ask what they want for their vehicles. What I've outlined above applies to 95% of what's out there ('01 and '02 SOM Firehawks carry a large premium as would the 4 Maple Red '02's if you could ever locate one). But, there's always that 5% that doesn't follow the norm.

To add insult to injury with NADA, if you don't "incorrectly" select the "ram air option" for an SLP Firehawk you get a lower price than the WS6. I kid you not! Again, NADA doesn't really know what they're doing. The KBB pricing I listed earlier is typical of what 75K mile WS6's could be expected to bring. Market transactions continue to bear out that Firehawks bring $500-$2,000 more than WS6's for cars in the $10K to $20K price range. It is very instructive to follow WS6 pricing when it comes to figuring out what Firehawks should bring.

http://www.kbb.com/pontiac/firebird/200 ... eage=75000

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Camar ... ars_Trucks

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