Roof panel paint bubbles - what % of cars not yet affected?

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DraganHawk
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Re: Roof panel paint bubbles - what % of cars not yet affect

Post by DraganHawk » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:02 pm

remove with fishing line............

PontiacFan
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Re: Roof panel paint bubbles - what % of cars not yet affect

Post by PontiacFan » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:17 pm

Guitar string also works.
Good to know they are 97 & older tho, ...

Are you an LS1Tech.com user?
If so, you need to go list them for sale there.
And Ebay also.
You should be able to turn them over continually for some time.
And if someone wants or needs one, they'll pay for shipping if the product is priced right.

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reelmcoy
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Re: Roof panel paint bubbles - what % of cars not yet affect

Post by reelmcoy » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:32 pm

zmaro wrote:
reelmcoy wrote:
PontiacFan wrote:So these are units removed from cars?!?
If so, What year of cars?

Or new OEM in the package from GM?

I'm not saying you should sell for cheap money.
I'm just more curious in exactly what you have available as I know many people who are looking for them if they are OEM new in the package.
These are off 0f 97 and earlier f bodies. Easy to get off if you have the tools and skill to do so.
What tools would one use? I need to remove one.
You need about $600 plus in windshield removal tools.
2001 SOM Formula Firehawk #444

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zmaro
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Re: Roof panel paint bubbles - what % of cars not yet affect

Post by zmaro » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:53 pm

reelmcoy wrote:You need about $600 plus in windshield removal tools.
If you would be interested PM me a price for one shipped (hardtop), if you had a black one with good paint that would be amazing.

Right now I can get the whole roof for $125 from junk yards around me, but then I would have to remove it myself (possibly breaking it) and have it painted. I've been looking to get a black pre '98 one so I wouldn't have to paint it, at least right away.
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Re: Roof panel paint bubbles - what % of cars not yet affect

Post by FireHawk#1078 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:54 am

My 02 Hawk has the bubbles and I have been trying to sell the car and was wondering if it hurts the value.

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zmaro
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Re: Roof panel paint bubbles - what % of cars not yet affect

Post by zmaro » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:43 pm

FireHawk#1078 wrote:My 02 Hawk has the bubbles and I have been trying to sell the car and was wondering if it hurts the value.
Well it isn't going to help the value at all. I just picked up a complete roof/sail panel off of a '94 Camaro for $50. It is going to cost $1018 at a body shop to get that panel removed from the roof structure, painted, removal of my affected roof/sail panel, and installation of the "new" panel. Note that this is for a hard top car, your '02 T-top car will be easier/cheaper to fix.
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Scott Chab
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Re: Roof panel paint bubbles - what % of cars not yet affect

Post by Scott Chab » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:15 pm

FireHawk#1078 wrote:My 02 Hawk has the bubbles and I have been trying to sell the car and was wondering if it hurts the value.
Not sure how it wouldn't hurt the value. It's a flaw that will need to be fixed.
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som2002
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Re: Roof panel paint bubbles - what % of cars not yet affect

Post by som2002 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:28 pm

24,500 miles, 2002 som t-top hawk. It sits in a garage, never seen rain or snow, never sits outside except at a handful of car shows each year. I only really drive it a little on nice weather weekends. I do have the paint bubbling on the sail panel that you are talking about.

Firebrian
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Re: Roof panel paint bubbles - what % of cars not yet affect

Post by Firebrian » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:18 pm

Another 28 months has gone by since I started this thread. No change in my 1999 sail panel since then....no bubbles apparent yet. Glad to see the information being provided to fix these as needed. Unfortunately, not a cheap fix. Only way to avoid this problem entirely is purchasing an early 1998 hardtop/ttop or buying a 1998-2002 convertible. In reviewing many hundreds of LS-1 for sale ads or auctions over the past year I very, very rarely see a seller mention defective roof panels in their descriptions. It's either that they refuse to mention them or that the problem is not as widespread as we think. Don't really know. I've gone to see a handful of these cars for sale in person and have only seen the problem once.

I have to think that hot sun exposure (like during car shows) is a primary accelerant of this process. The guy that owned my car before me I don't think ever let the car sit out in the sun. He didn't do car shows either. I've done the same thing the past 2 years. Attended only one car show in this time (May 2012) and was quite concerned when by noon time I saw a lot more rippling/orange peeling visible in the sail panel paint than I had ever seen before. I ended up putting my fabric dash cover directly on the sail panel to keep the sun off it. If the dash cover were just a few inches longer it could wrap under the closed windows and be used any time you park the car out in the open. Just a thought. It apparently doesn't take a lot of heat to get those paint/glue juices bubbling and gassing. I don't ever see this bubbling mentioned on low mileage 99 and 02 anniversay cars which are fairly available in pristine, low mileage condition. I'll tag a swag and say that the darker colors that absorb light/heat probably show this issue more than lighter colors like white and silver. Proper storage and minimal exposure would appear to help control this issue, though not a guaranteed solution.
Last edited by Firebrian on Thu May 29, 2014 12:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Roof panel paint bubbles - what % of cars not yet affect

Post by 02 red hawk » Mon May 26, 2014 10:05 am

My '02 pewter ws6 spent some time in the sun when the original owner had it. I bought the car in '08 with 48,229 miles. 6 months after ownership, I had the sail panel replaced under warranty. I will add that the car resides in a cool pitch black garage in Florida. It only comes out of the garage when I drive it, which is early AM or evening hours. I keep it out of the heat of the day & so far, the panel is still perfect. I've also got an '02 NBM ws6, same garage, same treatment, 3067 miles, perfect. 1 more, a red '02 ta hawk, same everything, 6420 miles, again perfect. This car, I'm the 3rd owner, appears to have had the panel replaced. At the right angle, it looks like the paint on the sail panel is just a slight shade off. Keeping the panel cool seems to be the key to prevention, but if you replace, the new adhesive should not repeat the pattern.

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Re: Roof panel paint bubbles - what % of cars not yet affect

Post by Phil » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:03 am

02 Navy Blue here. Just under 8000 miles and so far no bubbles. Bit I have been keeping an eye on it for years just waiting.

Had an 00 Red T/A that lived outside its whole life, had no bubbles when sold in 07. That might have just been a lucky break.

I was smart enough to buy the replacement upper dash panel from GM just before it was discontinued. Now I wish I had been smart enough to buy a new sail panel at the same time to store away with it.

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Re: Roof panel paint bubbles - what % of cars not yet affect

Post by 02 red hawk » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:12 pm

We don't buy these cars expecting problems. Too bad we have to deal with them, though.

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Re: Roof panel paint bubbles - what % of cars not yet affect

Post by randybirdhawk » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:27 pm

It was barely noticeable on my 2001 but I was having some work done to repair egging and keyed damage, I went ahead and had it done under warranty. Worst choice I ever made, they gave me 1 year warranty and then Pontiac closed and GM said sorry its been two years anyway, not covered. It totally went from black to mostly white on my roof. The portion of the car done by a small company that did everything but my cars roof paint is still perfect. Way to go GM :x
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Re: Roof panel paint bubbles - what % of cars not yet affect

Post by FIRSTLAST » Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:25 pm

All mine bad - sail panel, hood, hood 2nd timr, IROC spoiler. Stayed in hot no insulation garage most of time. Out a few months first fall.

As a body guy by hobby, 30 years, think build date is cause. Car is 1111, got stuck on prodyction, fell behind 8 + weeks. Ordered 3/20, took delivery 7/30. So its glass parts were part of the hurry it up heavy final orders, run too fast through SLP, or a glass shop they contracted, and resin mixed wrobg, not thoroughly with enough hardener for the atmospheric conditions (i.e. sunmmer humidity). A top level restore shop lets these parts "breathe" out 6 months to a year before sealing in with non breathable epoxy primers, etc... then sealer, color coat, clear coat etc...

SLP getting heat from GM by my car, so rushed work is bad work. My rims another example. All pitted interior, nasty burrs, slice your fingers. 10 units later, have seen beautiful rims, same product. That btw was a big part of corporate bottleneck.

Chart build date to the flaw, and correlate to summer humidity for a meaningful pattern.
2002 Firehawk 1111 NBM

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Re: Roof panel paint bubbles - what % of cars not yet affect

Post by PontiacFan » Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:21 pm

But mine was a 2001 car, & it had the bubbles showing.
So I'm not sure a build date or time stamp would be the root cause.

It that what you were suggesting?
But I don't think it's relevant to the 2002 model years only.

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