These don't really do 13.53 stock do they ?

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TAdan
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Post by TAdan » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:59 pm

Just for comparisons sake:

My stock 25th T/A. auto, 3.23 rear ran 13.97@101 At Englishtown (And a run to back it up)

My stock 94 T/A GT. auto, 3.23 rear ran 14.2@98.

So add a few extra Hp for a hawk, subtract some weight for a Formula...and I can see 13.5's being possible.
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James_Montigny
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Post by James_Montigny » Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:02 pm

Talk about getting it strait from the horse's mouth!

Thanks Dave :) can't wait to see what she does.
And if I have to take driving lessons and take it to NJ to get a decent time, I'll do it :D because I am like that.


Dave Hamburger wrote:Whenever we would test a vehicle, we would test at Englishtown, NJ during March in optimal conditions.

We used an average of three drivers (magazine, a professional and an SLP tech) - the average time would be the printed time.

The F-bodies are all over the board with times, I remember in '97 we tested a bone stock SS 6spd car and the average time we pulled was somewhere in the 13.38's. Scott Kallita (top fuel driver) got in the car and then ripped out a 12.27 and he backed it up with a 12.29! (we didn't advertise that time). In 1999, I drove a bone stock Formula Firehawk six speed at Napierville Dragway outside of Montreal. Out of the box I ran 13.30's and then with my slicks I ran a 13.05.


Sea Level, Barometric Pressure, Track Conditions, Driver capabilities and the car all play a part in your ET's. Just because you may be in Denver at Bandimere Speedway and you run a 14.40 doesn't mean your car is slow. Adjust the ET based on your altitude and you may be surprized!


-Dave

25thhawk
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Post by 25thhawk » Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:43 pm

I can't really see a bone stock 97 SS even getting into the 12's, let alone a 12.27. Pro driver or not, I hope that was a typo.

Ryan

Dave Hamburger
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Post by Dave Hamburger » Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:04 pm

25thhawk wrote:I can't really see a bone stock 97 SS even getting into the 12's, let alone a 12.27. Pro driver or not, I hope that was a typo.

Ryan

No typo whatsoever - I have a beta video somewhere of the runs. He powershifted the entire way and really hurt the tranny on the 3rd pass, but at that point we were done for the day. I believe the run also aired on Motorweek TV. Also keep in mind that this was a cloth seat, crank window car.

-Dave

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Post by LT4Firehawk » Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:17 pm

25thhawk wrote:I can't really see a bone stock 97 SS even getting into the 12's, let alone a 12.27. Pro driver or not, I hope that was a typo.
I wonder if that was a bone stock LT4 SS? 13.38 sounds about right for a bone stock LT4 car. I really can't see 12.27 on a stock f-body (even an LT4) no matter who is driving it. Even with slicks I can only see an LT4 car running high 12s in stock form, or maybe 12.6 or so if they really nailed the 60' time. The best I've ever heard of for a stock f-body 60' time is a 1.6, so that's .4 better than the 2.0 60' I pulled on my 13.2 run, which would give a 12.8. Using a decent 1/4 mile calculator, based on 3500lbs (which is being optimistic with a driver), for 300RWHP you get 13.21. To get a 12.2, a 3500lb car w/driver would need 375RWHP, or a 311RWHP car (what my ECM tuned LT4 Hawk puts out) would need to weigh just under 3000lbs w/driver. I really don't see either one of those conditions happening with a stock SS (even an LT4 SS). I could possibly see it happening with a stripped LT4 SS race car (which I know of at least one of).

I've seen literaly thousands of 1/4 mile passes on 4th gen f-bodies, many under very good conditions, and I've NEVER seen a "stock" (meaning stock tires too) f-body run anywhere close to a 12.2. I hate to doubt those 12.2 numbers Dave, but without further info I just can't see them happening on a "stock" car no matter who's driving. Was it with full slicks?
Evan
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LT4Firehawk
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Post by LT4Firehawk » Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:30 pm

Dave Hamburger wrote:No typo whatsoever - I have a beta video somewhere of the runs. He powershifted the entire way and really hurt the tranny on the 3rd pass, but at that point we were done for the day. I believe the run also aired on Motorweek TV. Also keep in mind that this was a cloth seat, crank window car.
-Dave
I'd love to see that vid. I still find it hard to believe even with a "pro" driver powershifting the car. Also, you still haven't answered if that was on full slicks or stock tires and the specifics of the car. I just can not see an LT1 car doing that, unless it's a factory "ringer".

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Post by Dave Hamburger » Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:38 pm

LT4Firehawk wrote:Was it with full slicks?
No, BFG R1's and a very sticky track. I've got a few thousand videos in the cabinets, but I'll have one of my warehouse gophers look for it on Monday. I should also have shots on one of my old servers.

The car was a factory freak - a GM NAO car that was one of our first cars given to us by GM on the Chevy side. I know it weighed damn near close to 3K with me (back in '97 I weighed only 165 - Kallita weighed in I believe at 147 (although he was able to practically drink me under the table that year at Sturgis!) and we always ran with about an eighth of a tank of fuel. I won't go in to too many details about GM's media cars and what GM did to them, for that you'll have to read my book next spring.

Edit: also, no need to preach to me about the old moroso calculators and so on, I'm not here to prove anything and I think I've been around a few drag cars in my time:

circa '70

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And try putting this one in the calculator. My old '82 Camaro. 297hp at the rear wheels with a 90shot of the juice and DFI. Car weighed 3250 wet, with me. Full cage, Dana 44 with a 3:42.1 and full street legal MT's. (same rear end as the '91/'92 Hawks!) a few weeks after this pass we managed an 11.18 after Julio tweaked the DFI:

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Dave Hamburger
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Post by Dave Hamburger » Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:07 pm

While I'm at it, one more cool shot I just found:

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Matt B
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Post by Matt B » Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:21 pm

Nice pics Dave!

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Post by LT4Firehawk » Sun Apr 02, 2006 10:45 am

Cool pics. Does sound like a ringer from GM, even a stock "stripper" car should have weighed a lot more than that. Souonds like GM really tweaked that car. It does show that there are "stock" cars out there that could run some crazy numbers, but the vast majority of people will never see one of those "stock" f-bodies. :wink:
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25thhawk
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Post by 25thhawk » Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:49 pm

I want to see the video too.

That would be the fastest street tire "stock" pass I have heard of from an M6 car. To run a 12.2 it had to trap around 110 in a M6 and my stock 94 only runs right around 100. So that car must have been substantially up in power.

However, back to the question, can a stock hawk pull a 13.5. On the right day at the right track. I would say yes. Are all of us going to be able to run that number, definitely not. I would guess that most of us will be in the 13.6-13.8 range. Unless you have the "freak" car.

Ryan

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Post by Firehawk 526 » Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:38 pm

Scott Kallitta.....I can dust him :roll: :roll: :roll:

WOW, interesting reading! U learn something new everday :wink:
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Rhode Island Red
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Post by Rhode Island Red » Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:56 pm

Great pics Dave :)

I can back up what 25th said,

Most of my runs were 13.6-13.8 all @102-104 mph with 2.1-2.2+ 60's
My best was a 13.60 @104.7 with a 2.110, at Lebanon Valley on DR's (2-3 's slower than sea level) at 80 something degrees.

I must admit I did not go in optimal conditions, I found those to be the biggest time deciding factors... my bad days with 90's and high humidity I would run 13.9-14.2's are common. Listen to Dave Folks :mrgreen:

Firehawk 526
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Post by Firehawk 526 » Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:58 pm

Dave Hamburger wrote:While I'm at it, one more cool shot I just found:

Image
An old 70's Duster....talk about a stroll down memory lane! :D
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ghost68
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Post by ghost68 » Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:24 am

Let us know what the title of the book is going to be so we can get a copy.
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